The results are 62.5% in, and I’d like to share them together with my conclusions. I’ll revise the numbers in this post when the response increments to 100%. Something I did differently this time is take the survey and (I think) configure it so you can all see the results. I am the outlier in certain areas, so I will call myself out by name but everyone else’s responses will of course remain private.

If you read the Campaign Retrospective Results article you’ll find this article¹ shorter. This is due mostly to the fact the many of the questions were designed² to be verification questions. In other words a lot of questions about styles of game were asked in an attempt to reveal any inconsistencies in our group’s tastes. I don’t think any meaningful amount of inconsistency was revealed.

Abstract

The group so far has an 85% positive response to 5E excluding my vote. Including me, it drops to 76%. I flatter myself to think I know they players well enough to think that when the final results come in (again excluding me) the result will hold at 85% or better.

As briefly as possible I dislike 5E because the rules create a style of game that I don’t enjoy preparing, running or playing. I fumble through that conclusion in far more words elsewhere on this blog³ and since it’s been coming up again among the YouTube DMs I follow I may revisit the subject with more clarity. I can’t blame you if that’s far more detail than you’re interested in.

Given the above my best dispassionate advice for the group is to drop me and find someone who wants to play or run 5E. Enjoy yourselves, I won’t be offended.

If for some reason you feel compelled to keep playing with me read on.

Survey in Appropriate Detail

The response to the question “If you’ve played any of these TTRPGs rate them 1 to 5. Skip them if you haven’t played them.” is as follows. Note, I’ve excluded all games with < 4 responses. That threshold was taken as there not being enough input to make a group wide decision. All results include my vote.

Game	% Positive	No. of Votes
Mörk Borg	80%	4
5E	76%	5
2E	75%	4
AD&D	68%	5

Mörk Borg is the most popular game we’ve played so we should consider playing again in the future. Our group has grown since last time so we’d probably want the expanded classes to eliminate duplication. In light of the group’s general like of complex combat systems I personally doubt it’s viability as a long term game system but clearly it’s great fun to dip into.

I think the rest of the results speak for themselves.

Most of the rest of the questions in the “General Refresher” section were about gauging what people like as a means to influence the types of future games I may run, but there were a few interesting results.

For the question “Rate these types of table-top games (1 to 5)” (board, war and rpg) board games received the highest ranking and war games the lowest. Significant in light of 5E being the most liked system. Its combat basically being a board-war game.

For the question “Rank these styles of game” received rankings of 3-5 except for myself who ranked this style 1. This is a curious result since I’ve seen some amount of the players become immediately annoyed when I railroad.

Most of the “Combat Specifics” questions were centered around determining whether the player’s investment matched their likes. This section was very consistent with two things worth mentioning.

There is a high-expectation among the players that the software will “track my character’s advantage and disadvantages.” I’m sorry to disappoint you. The software is limited.

D&D games that offer more character customization tend to put powers and modifiers under the direct control of players. In these cases magic items tend to be fewer and their pluses smaller

Most players ranked this question at equal balance but the question was far too vague since it makes no assertion about what balance is. It may surprise you to learn that 5E doesn’t expect players to start gaining uncommon magic items until some time after 5th level and rare items until some time after 11th. In other words players should expect only find Potions of Climbing or Healing or Scrolls with cantrips or 1st level spells until about 5th level. +1 items, scrolls with 2nd to 3rd level spells, many potions and minor wands would start turning up after level 5.⁴ I’ve yet to meet a player who likes this.

Conversely, an AD&D adventure is likely to provide potions, scrolls and +1 weapons and armor during the first adventure.

Regarding the rest of the survey it’s no surprise that you all understand (at least mostly) the rules and that we have reasonable and mature expectation of each other.

I think this clocks in at half the length previous post so, you’re welcome.

While writing I had more thoughts about editions that you can think of as bonus content like deleted scenes at the end of a DVD. You know, those shiny plastic coasters we used before you could watch everything digitally.

Editions

I have some pretty strong opinions about TSR era D&D vs WOTC era D&D but I’m far more interested in discussion⁵ than hard positions. No I won’t run or play WOTC D&D, but I view TSR era D&D more as a starting point that can be modified to taste rather than as a set of rules that must be strictly followed.

The real barrier to “home-brewing” is the software.

TSR Era D&D

Going on 2 years ago I had more than a few private “struggle sessions” over just what D&D I wanted to play after leaving 5E behind. I “penned” my conclusion in the article “Picking A Forever Game” but for the sake of transparency I’ll sum up below.

A few notes before the summation. I’m not wed to AD&D. My observations of the group in action was that the group is mostly casual players which made 5E too complex a system⁶. The factors I struggled over were, availability on VTTs, availability of printed materials, availability of retro-clones and generic feels.

Second Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons

This is the edition I played most as a kid and therefore the edition I have the most nostalgia for.

Pros

1. I have the materials on Fantasy Grounds
2. Nostalgia
3. Many Settings
4. Reasonable cost on DriveThru

Cons

1. Steep cost of original printed books.
2. DriveThru only has the revised edition.
3. One little known retro-clone, “For Gold and Glory“
4. I disliked nearly all of the “Complete” books.
5. There were too many rules I wanted to tear off the system.

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons

This is the first edition I learned to play. I have a great fondness for many of this editions modules.

Pros

1. Nostalgia
2. Classic Settings
3. Reasonable cost on DriveThru
4. OSRIC
5. Adventures Dark and Deep
6. Hyperborea.
7. Indy publishers still write modules for this game.

Cons

1. Steep cost of original printed books (see above).
2. Gygaxian Prose, but OSRIC.
3. Combat charts.
4. An amount of quality of life rules changes but fewer than 2E.

Basic Dungeons and Dragons

The term basic covers (if you can believe it) 3 “sub” editions of the Dungeons and Dragons game. For the sake of brevity I tend to think of it as the BECMI-Mentzer edition but my prose and cons list covers the B/X-Moldvay edition due to the retro-clone Old School Essentials.

Pros

1. Simplicity
2. Available on Fantasy Grounds
3. Accessible and Affordable
4. New Adventures being published
5. Easily compatible with TSR modules
6. Advance rules remove “class as race”
7. Active zine expanding the rules
8. The Dolmenwood game.
9. The OSE SRD
10. There are just a lot of retro-clones of B/X

Cons

1. Too much simplicity?
2. No real nostalgic connection
3. Limited levels
4. Some sunken cost on “D&D” (foolish I admit)

by Sage Jim

Foot Notes

1. Perhaps mercifully so to your way of thinking.
2. I am far from a expert at designing surveys of course.
3. “I’m Going OSR“, “Skill Failure: Insight“, “AD&D for 5E Players: What Drove Me Away“
4. Various, Starting Equipment; Standard Campaign: Dungeons Master’s Guide (Renton: Wizards of the Coast, 2014), 38.
5. That’s why I write a blog that my players don’t read.
6. I stand by this conclusion as flawed as it may seem in light of other evidence, including the results of this survey. It’s indisputable that everyone (again excluding me) likes 5E but the broad amnesia of the players regarding the many abilities of their characters over the course of 2 campaigns (for most of you at least) is revealing.